Response to Comment re Marriage/Divorce/Remarriage
A few days ago, a comment was left here, and I promised to respond, but had not been able to do so until today.
I have to begin this with reminding everyone that I have been in divorce courts myself. I do not know if my visitor knew that or not when he left his comment.
So here is my response:
I have been praying about how to respond. There are several ways to go, as you have actually brought up many different topics unintentionally, I believe.
One, and most important, is your statement that you prefer the 'God of the New Testament" to the 'God of the Old Testament". There is a problem with your theology, as there is only One God, not two. The God of the NT IS the God of the OT, 'reformed conservative'. He does not change. He always was, always will be, and is today one and the same Triune God.
There is a section of Scripture that fits here very well. 2 Timothy 4:3-4.
2Tim.4:1-4 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom:
preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season, convince, rebuke, and exhort, be unfailing in patience and in teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths.
So how to respond to the various topics that are contained in one comment...
Adultery
Nullity/Validity
Unforgiveness
Responsibility
The Eucharist
I'll take it one at a time.
Adultery
Your wife committed adultery. This resulted in her saying things that nearly every human being says to justify their sin, and divorce. There isn't a one of us who has been to the no fault, forced, unilateral divorce courts that has not heard exactly what she said to you at some point along the line. "I never loved you, I had doubts before I married you, I made a mistake', and on and on. The enemy has only so many lies.
However, Jesus was speaking to the religious leaders of His day when they asked Him to clarify a question on divorce, and tried to trick Him. There were conflicting groups teaching different things about divorce even then. Jesus turned the tables on them.
Some groups today teach that 'porneia' means adultery, and give that as a justification for divorce and marrying someone else. But that isn't the meaning of the Greek word, and our Church has never taught that adultery sets you free of marital indissolubility.
Jesus is the One who has told us that man cannot separate One Flesh. No divorce court in the world has the power to do so. Your vows, as your wife's, were til death parted you. (NOT eternal... ).
Does God know what it is like to have His partner, His Bride turn to another? Yes, He does. Hosea is His teaching on that. Malachi gives His clear thinking on what HE thinks of divorce.
He hates it.
He does not change. He does not give into the whims of society and suddenly tell us that He was only kidding, or only speaking to people of a certain time, and now that we are so enlightened, He will give us different rules to follow.
Jesus makes it very clear about divorce and a subsequent second marriage. He speaks to each individual involved in four different places in the NEW Testament. This isn't 'the Church' speaking. It is Jesus Himself speaking, and no matter where you go, in your own protest, He also does not change.
Mal.2 [13]And this again you do. You cover the LORD's altar with tears, with weeping and groaning because he no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor at your hand.
[14] You ask, "Why does he not?" Because the LORD was witness to the covenant between you and the wife of your youth, to whom you have been faithless, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. [15] Has not the one God made and sustained for us the spirit of life? And what does he desire? Godly offspring. So take heed to yourselves, and let none be faithless to the wife of his youth. [16] "For I hate divorce, says the LORD the God of Israel, and covering one's garment with violence, says the LORD of hosts. So take heed to yourselves and do not be faithless."
Matt.19 [3] And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?"
[4] He answered, "Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, [5] and said, `For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? [6] So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder." [7] They said to him, "Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" [8] He said to them, "For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. [9] And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another, commits adultery."
Mark.10 [2]And Pharisees came up and in order to test him asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?"
[3] He answered them, "What did Moses command you?" [4] They said, "Moses allowed a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to put her away." [5] But Jesus said to them, "For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. [6] But from the beginning of creation, `God made them male and female.' [7] `For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, [8] and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two but one flesh. [9] What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder." [10]
And in the house the disciples asked him again about this matter.
[11] And he said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; [12] and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."
Matt.5 [31] "It was also said, `Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
[32] But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes her an adulteress ( 'causes her to commit adulteryis the wording in some versions--if she also marries someone else...); and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Luke.16 [18] "Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.
1Cor.7 [10] To the married I give charge, not I but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband
[11] (but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband) -- and that the husband should not divorce his wife.
[12] To the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her.
[13] If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. [14] For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband. Otherwise, your children would be unclean, but as it is they are holy. [15] But if the unbelieving partner desires to separate, let it be so; in such a case the brother or sister is not bound. For God has called us to peace. [16] Wife, how do you know whether you will save your husband? Husband, how do you know whether you will save your wife?
Verse 15 is often given as a statement that means you are free to remarry, but it does not say that. And Paul was also speaking of non-believers (unBaptized) not just anyone. The command from the Lord in verse 10-11 still stands.
So, Jesus Himself spoke of the one wanting a divorce, the one that he/she divorces, the one that he/she marries after the divorce, AND the one who marries the person who was divorced. He did not make any exception.Adultery
Nullity/Validity
Unforgiveness
Responsibility
The Eucharist
I'll take it one at a time.
Adultery
Your wife committed adultery. This resulted in her saying things that nearly every human being says to justify their sin, and divorce. There isn't a one of us who has been to the no fault, forced, unilateral divorce courts that has not heard exactly what she said to you at some point along the line. "I never loved you, I had doubts before I married you, I made a mistake', and on and on. The enemy has only so many lies.
However, Jesus was speaking to the religious leaders of His day when they asked Him to clarify a question on divorce, and tried to trick Him. There were conflicting groups teaching different things about divorce even then. Jesus turned the tables on them.
Some groups today teach that 'porneia' means adultery, and give that as a justification for divorce and marrying someone else. But that isn't the meaning of the Greek word, and our Church has never taught that adultery sets you free of marital indissolubility.
Jesus is the One who has told us that man cannot separate One Flesh. No divorce court in the world has the power to do so. Your vows, as your wife's, were til death parted you. (NOT eternal... ).
Does God know what it is like to have His partner, His Bride turn to another? Yes, He does. Hosea is His teaching on that. Malachi gives His clear thinking on what HE thinks of divorce.
He hates it.
He does not change. He does not give into the whims of society and suddenly tell us that He was only kidding, or only speaking to people of a certain time, and now that we are so enlightened, He will give us different rules to follow.
Jesus makes it very clear about divorce and a subsequent second marriage. He speaks to each individual involved in four different places in the NEW Testament. This isn't 'the Church' speaking. It is Jesus Himself speaking, and no matter where you go, in your own protest, He also does not change.
Mal.2 [13]And this again you do. You cover the LORD's altar with tears, with weeping and groaning because he no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor at your hand.
[14] You ask, "Why does he not?" Because the LORD was witness to the covenant between you and the wife of your youth, to whom you have been faithless, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. [15] Has not the one God made and sustained for us the spirit of life? And what does he desire? Godly offspring. So take heed to yourselves, and let none be faithless to the wife of his youth. [16] "For I hate divorce, says the LORD the God of Israel, and covering one's garment with violence, says the LORD of hosts. So take heed to yourselves and do not be faithless."
Matt.19 [3] And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?"
[4] He answered, "Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, [5] and said, `For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? [6] So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder." [7] They said to him, "Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" [8] He said to them, "For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. [9] And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another, commits adultery."
Mark.10 [2]And Pharisees came up and in order to test him asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?"
[3] He answered them, "What did Moses command you?" [4] They said, "Moses allowed a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to put her away." [5] But Jesus said to them, "For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. [6] But from the beginning of creation, `God made them male and female.' [7] `For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, [8] and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two but one flesh. [9] What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder." [10]
And in the house the disciples asked him again about this matter.
[11] And he said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; [12] and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."
Matt.5 [31] "It was also said, `Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
[32] But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes her an adulteress ( 'causes her to commit adulteryis the wording in some versions--if she also marries someone else...); and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Luke.16 [18] "Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.
1Cor.7 [10] To the married I give charge, not I but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband
[11] (but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband) -- and that the husband should not divorce his wife.
[12] To the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her.
[13] If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. [14] For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband. Otherwise, your children would be unclean, but as it is they are holy. [15] But if the unbelieving partner desires to separate, let it be so; in such a case the brother or sister is not bound. For God has called us to peace. [16] Wife, how do you know whether you will save your husband? Husband, how do you know whether you will save your wife?
Verse 15 is often given as a statement that means you are free to remarry, but it does not say that. And Paul was also speaking of non-believers (unBaptized) not just anyone. The command from the Lord in verse 10-11 still stands.
There is an excellent diagram to show this visually, but it does not go far enough.
This diagram takes the original married couple, and shows that they cannot be divided and be the same 'persons' that they were before marriage. They each take something of that other with them when they rip apart that One Being created on their wedding day (or try to).
This diagram shows one of those people ("Jill") marrying someone who was not married before (the whole body on "Dave"... but it could JUST as easily be to another divorced person who is NOT able to be illustrated with that whole body... say 'Tom"... OR, "Jack" could attempt to marry "Torie", never married before, or "Samantha", who had been.
Jesus touched on every single person in those different settings! Jesus said it was adultery. The Church only passes on what He taught.
It makes no difference if every other denomination/non-denomination says differently, or if every other person on the face of this earth says differently.
Jesus said it.
Jesus meant it.
Jesus does not change to suit today's easy divorce, and rampant sin.
So, where does that leave us?
If we separate, we are to aim for reconciliation.
NULLITY/VALIDITY
There have always been some marriages that are not marriages for various reasons.
We cannot marry a sibling.
We cannot marry a liar who tries to say that there was no previous marriage, only to find out later that there was.
We cannot be kidnapped and forced into marriage against our will.
Those are just a few examples.
Because of that, there has been a way for us to be free to marry in the Church by having a Tribunal examine the marriage and give a judgment about its validity. IF found to be NULL, then there was no marriage, and the person is free to marry in the Church (for the first time).
HOWEVER, all marriages are to be assumed to be VALID until proven not to be. A married person, going through a divorce is NOT free to date. They are not free to marry again, nor to be looking for a new spouse. They are not 'single again'. Man's divorce cannot change that fact.
Divorce by itself does NOT mean that we cannot receive the Eucharist.
I can, if I am not in the state of sin.
But once we take that further step and marry again without knowing if we are really free to do so, we fit into one of the categories that JESUS says is adultery. And that sin does make us unable to receive the Eucharist just as much as any other Grave (Mortal) Sin does. The problem comes in when one tries to 'confess' simply to be able to go to Communion the next day without being willing to change the situation that is the cause of that sin...
The US Tribunals have come up with 'a myriad of ways' to say that a first marriage was never a marriage. I personally would go to the Rota for the Second Instance, and any further appeals that could come. But many here in the US simply accept the word of the US Tribunals. That is the route that is in place for you and any other person in the Catholic Church to be in good standing, be able to marry and free to go to Communion IF NOT IN THE STATE OF SIN.
When one speaks to those who promote this route ('annulment' or 'Nullity'), one is told it is 'healing'. You say you are avoiding it because it would bring back the pain.
I have another thought. Fear.
For there is ALWAYS the possibility that even here in the US, a Tribunal will rule that a first marriage of one of the partners is VALID...and what to do if that is yours?
You also say that the Church should simply accept your word for it, and let you alone... not in so many words, but that is essentially what you are saying... however there are two problems with that.
First, Jesus gave the keys to His Kingdom to Peter, and with those keys, He gave the authority to bind and to loose... he did not give them to us.
Second, your wedding was a public pronouncement of Vows til the death of one of you. Private thoughts/convictions cannot undo this fact. It is therefore, not something that can be taken care of 'privately' and the Church 'be damned'.
That is why Internal Forum cannot be used other than for VERY rare exceptions. And they should be VERY RARE.
As for spending money on a petition for Nullity...it isn't very much at all, especially when one considers how much was probably spent on getting the Civil Divorce.
And since it is truly a matter of one's Eternity, it is a 'drop in the bucket' to know where one really stands. There is also the matter of some people honestly not being able to afford it, and that is readily taken care of by showing that one CAN'T afford it. Each Diocese has ways around that.
Unforgiveness
We are commanded by Him to forgive. Hard as it may be, even adultery must be forgiven. Even the hurtful words delivered in the course of a civil divorce and its aftermath.
And take it one step further... we are also to go to the other person and ask to BE forgiven for whatever WE are guilty of having done (and don't tell me that you never sinned against your wife, for there is only ONE who has not sinned on His own, and His mother was preserved from sin by Him and her consent to do His Will.... ).
Without that forgiveness, and asking for forgiveness, we are not able to approach His altar. This is what Reconciliation is all about.. the Sacrament of Penance. We examine OUR conscience (not our spouse's), confess OUR sin (not our spouse's), make OUR OWN Act of Contrition, do our own penance, and then go and make restitution/reparation for what we had done...NOT for what our spouse did.
We also can be guilty of the same sin that Lucifer was guilty of... Pride, Disobedience... "I will be like Him'... I will be my own authority, I will do it my way...
Responsibility
It is not the Church who is at fault. It is not the Church who must make reparation for our sin against our spouse, nor the continued unforgiveness we may harbor in our hearts. It is not the Church who must conform to society. It is us. WE are to be conformed to Him. And this is His Church.
It won't make one iota of difference where we go, or what we do if we do not take responsibility for our own actions, our own choices, our own sin. Oh, we can find a 'church' that will tell us what we want to hear, but that church may not be speaking TRUTH. God still knows our heart, and He knows that He has written His word on our hearts.
When I tried to pray that God would change my spouse, it was firmly brought home that He was going to begin working on ME. My own walk with Him needed correction, and by concentrating on praying for the other to be changed, I could conveniently NOT look at myself. I could examine HIS conscience, not mine.
I am not responsible for what he chooses to do. I am responsible for my choices.
The Eucharist
This is not just a matter of walking up and taking a host, putting it into our mouth and walking away 'remembering' Him, nor is it a 'commemoration', a symbolic gesture.
This is Jesus.
Body, Blood, Soul, Divinity.
Second Person of the Trinity.
HOLY God, MIGHTY God. IMMORTAL God.
KING OF KINGS, LORD OF LORDS.
ALPHA and OMEGA.
He cannot dwell in an unholy space. When we choose to receive Him in a state of Sin, we bring our own judgment on ourselves. That is why we are to refrain from going to Communion when we are in the state of Grave (Mortal) Sin of ANY kind, not just adultery.
God bless, and I really mean that.
"Right is right, even if no one is right.
Wrong is wrong, even if everyone is wrong."
~~Bishop Fulton J. Sheen
Labels: 'Annulment', "Two Become One", Adultery, Catholic, Catholic Teaching, Divorce, Forced divorce, Indissolubility, Marriage, No fault Divorce, Nullity, Remarriage, Stander, Vows
posted by WI Catholic @ 4/09/2008 04:52:00 PM
6 Comments:
I lost my Blogger account password, so just wanted to let you know that it's me.
Thanks for spending what appears to be a good amount of time and a great deal of thought on my inquiry! I can't help but notice that you interpret the Bible quite literally. That's fine and I respect that, but it's not how I approach my faith.
I'm not sure what your background is, but I was indeed taught during the course of 16 years of Catholic education that there was an angry God in the Old Testament and a forgiving God in the New Testament. We just don't see God striking down sinners with death and destruction in the New Testament, unless I skipped that part.
That said, I don't subscribe to any belief that claims God doesn't forgive me for my EX-wife's unfaithfulness and want me in His Church, and most importantly, sharing my life here on earth with someone who loves me completely and makes me the happiest person I've ever been in my entire life. Now that my wife is pregnant, I don't want our child to ever hear such ridiculous beliefs that claim his or her parents are sinners and adulterers because Daddy didn't get an annulment from Catholic Law Enforcement officials who, apparently, have problems "behaving" within their own ranks. Just wondering, can those pedophile priests still receive the Eucharist? I'll be receiving the Eucharist at my kid's First Communion and he or she won't be asking why Daddy never receives or told that it's because I'm living a life of sin. My wife and I will set the example with our faith and beliefs, in the Catholic Church or elsewhere.
As you can tell, I'm very angry with the Church and it's the constant "opinions" (humans have opinions and God has answers) from fellow Catholics, including family and friends, that I should just pay the fine and launch the annulment/"healing" process so I can get into God's good graces, and now, Heaven, that have me believing you all believe in some God other than the one I love and know loves and forgives me so long as I am a faithful servant and act according to His will.
Yep, I'm going to Heaven with my wife. My EX-wife can come, too! I forgive her. So does the God I believe in. We'll be joined by Buddhists, Shintoists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Lutherans, Baptists, Presbyterians, Mormons, Tom Cruise etc. He knows we're all good people worthy of His saving grace. Those who reject His salvation in Heaven will be sent to Hell. But it will be God who determines who He lets in -- not man and not priests.
That's what I believe. You're free to believe what you want and interpret the Bible as you see fit. I could be wrong and you could be right or vice-versa, but I don't believe God will punish either of us when we meet Him in Heaven for having a central belief in Him and following our hearts here on earth. He has left us with a mystery to work towards solving and it's our actions and faith that He'll appreciate and understand -- and, I don't believe He'll say that either of us were right or wrong in our path to His doorstep. He'll just be happy we arrived and will welcome us both with open arms.
So, I'll be doing a little more digging and thinking before deciding on whether to stick with the Catholic Church or find a more welcoming Christian faith community. I do appreciate your thoughts and consideration. It just seems we're on different paths, but I know we'll both meet each other at the end.
Dear WIC,
Nice response. I concur.
Karl
Yes, THAT Karl.
Hi, reformed conservative!
I am glad that you took the time to return and read my response.
My background is cradle Catholic, confirmed before Vatican II, and actually also in the convent for a bit of time as an Aspirant. So I do not have 12 yrs of Catholic school, but I have close to it. I have worked in Catholic settings (health care) for most of my adult life, as well.
"Interpreting" literally isn't really very hard when it is written so plainly/clearly. How do you interpret the last half (or third) of John Chapter 6?
There is an example of someone being struck down by God in the New Testament (not to be argumentative, but just to be accurate ...smile) in Acts 5 (Ananias and Sapphira).
God does not hold you guilty nor responsible for the choices of anyone other than yourself. I personally know that there were things that I had done, said that were not godly choices while my husband and I were together that I had to repent of and ask his forgiveness for. I know others who learned the same thing, and each of us have had to humble ourselves and go back and ask for that forgiveness. Some long after the divorce took place, others, like me, during a long separation. Many have been told that they will 'never' be forgiven, even for small things.
Yes, I also had to forgive him, and let him know that I had done so, even though he said he did not give a "r__'s a__". Again, I am not responsible for his choices, only mine.
By the same token, I am not responsible for the sins of the pedophile priests, nor of those who have vowed poverty, chastity and obedience who choose to leave and forsake those vows (speaking of those who had taken Final Vows, not temporary). I am only responsible for my sin; I can only examine MY conscience, not theirs. God will take care of them in His time. Some have already met Him. In my humaness, I am glad that I am not them. In reality, I have no idea if they ever really repented or not.
God IS Mercy, yes!
God IS Love, YES!!
Jesus came to save all, YES...
But...many want to do things their way (remember Frank Sinatra's song... "I did it MYYYYY WAYYY!!" even though He gave us very clear instructions.
But God is also JUST. Many today forget that attribute of God. And, Jesus said that the Way is narrow, not wide.
As much as I want to believe that the other's sin is so much worse than mine, I can not. I hurt Him, I was just as guilty, and just as much in need of His Death as everyone else that has ever lived.
No matter how angry I get at the ease that 'annulments' are given out here in the US for the past thirty or forty years, I have learned that He is more important.
Just as He asked Peter, He has also asked every one of us. I cannot think of any other Church -- except the one He started -- that He is in so completely.
He is in the Eucharist. And I cannot leave Him especially now.
Why? Because I know what it was to have been deserted, hurt, left, divorced.
I can get 'fellowship' and 'friendship' at any other denomination...I did that a lot in the past by going to Mass and to other's churches just to be closer to Him and to His people.
But I cannot receive HIM anyplace but at Mass.
Perhaps there is something in 'our story' that can explain more, as well. On my side bar, there is a link to the story of Theresa and Joseph. You are welcome to it, if you'd like to read it.
God bless, RC!
Hi, Karl! (There is currently only one Karl that I know..smile)
Thank you, and welcome, again.
Two opposite situations here to read the same post. Amazing! He is so good.
God bless!
Just a note or two RC, which works for both your moniker and Roman Catholic,
"But it will be God who determines who He lets in -- not man and not priests."
We each decide where we go, God allows us to, through his gift of our freedom to make that choice.
"Just wondering, can those pedophile priests still receive the Eucharist?"
The ones that repent, try to restore what can be and who cease their former predatory behavior, I hope are already receiving Communion, even if in prison.
Your Gospel, RC, evidently would deny them forgivness, even as you apparently set the rules, thereby acting as God yourself.
So, for a person who seems to see God as this all forgiving being, you, apparently, still have some remnants of the old Catholic in you.
"I don't believe He'll say that either of us were right or wrong in our path to His doorstep. He'll just be happy we arrived and will welcome us both with open arms."
This is a repackaged, "the end justifies the means", God forgives all scenario, which if true would give us all cart blanche to rape, pillage and plunder as we, personally see fit and with a free pass from God, no less.
So, old RC, would you offer your wife and/or your daughter(s), if you have any, to the first BTK killer that comes along and break bread with she/he as he/she performed their "joyous" work upon your loved ones-- in your full view--- because God will forgive them anyway?
No, I think you just love your own creations and can't comprehend the witness otherwise, that sounder, more disciplined minds than yours have been saying for centuries.
Your behavior forces you to justify your adultery. We all do the same with our favorite sins.
I am sorry for you and hope that you see your errors before your presumption regarding the Mercy of God costs you your soul.
No sir, I am not your judge and I continue to battle my own tendency to do just that. So please do not think that I am trying to be holier than thou. Our host here, WI, can confirm my weakness, probably in more than I would like her to, if she so chose. But she also knows the other part of me that tries to take up his cross to follow his Savior.
Lastly, I do hope that we will meet, in the fullness of the Glory that is Almighty God and that all of us, your wife, the woman who is not your wife, you, my wife, the man who is not her husband and myself, oops you too WI and yours', and be in that fullness of JOY, eternally.
God be with you.
Karl
I wanted to respond to you, Karl, by simply saying... "God bless, Karl!"
But then I got into other things and never got back here til tonight when a visitor came by and stayed on this for a whole 9 seconds...LOL My pride says... hey, read the whole thing... ah, well..
I wrote an open letter, and then on TV heard a priest who says he will NOT see one half of a couple for marital counseling!! He will only see them together! Tiny miracle...tiny step... may more begin to do the same.
God bless, Karl! Read Numbers 6:24-26, ok?
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